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Watch: Morano in TV debate on urges rejection of UN Climate Summit: Morano: ‘Poland was dominated by Germany then the Soviet Union — Now the UN & EU are telling Poland’ what to do

The Newsmakers – TRT World TV
Broadcast on Dec 6, 2018
World leaders are in the Polish city of Katowice to follow up on the ambitious Paris Agreement aimed at reducing global warming. But despite green pledges, several countries are still holding onto their coal… including the host nation. Why are so many nations finding it difficult to give up fossil fuels?

Dominik Tarczynski
Polish MP with the ruling Law and Justice Party

Marc Morano
Executive director of Climate Depot

James Ellsmoor
Founder of Solar Head of State


Auto Generated Transcript:

well to discuss this were joined in
Warsaw by Dominique touch in ski he’s a
Polish MP with the ruling Law and
Justice Party in Washington DC we have
Marc Morano he’s the executive director
of climate Depot a website that disputes
the scientific consensus on climate
change and finally in Katowice Poland is
James ELLs more he’s the founder of the
group solar head of state which works
with governments to promote renewable
energy gentlemen thank you very much for
joining us James let me begin with you
there are people who see this conference
as the most important since the Paris
2015 conference do you agree with that
well this conference is all about sets
without the rulebook for how we
implement the Paris agreement and I
think it’s unfortunate that we’ve seen
such a drive towards non renewable
energy in this conference I hit was a
very important change that we saw since
last year with Fiji chairing towards
this year with Poland and I think it’s
very important important in the sense
that the leadership around this
conference is perhaps not as strong as
it was last year and that is very
challenging for future negotiations tell
me why it’s not as strong James well VG
is a small island developing state is
pretty clear of the most diverse and
climate change we’ve seen hurricanes
there year after year and this isn’t
worried that means I’m only going to get
worse and weak environment rising sea
levels and then we’re really
representing the rest of the Pacific
Islands and calling for strict cuts and
a move away from fossil fuels to
renewable energy as well as climate
finance to address the impact of climate
change for low income countries now in
in the Polish case were in a country
that is 80 percent into the villages to
is generated by coal and there are very
different there’s a very different
rationale of how we should deal deal
with managers and myself
yeah president Duda refusing to abandon
coal says it does not contradict the
protection of the climate Dominic touch
Hinske that’s your government’s position
you’re hosting the conference you must
be proud to host the conference is it
easy to square what seems to be two
contradictory intentions protecting the
environment but
also not wanting to gut a crucial driver
of your economy yeah obviously I’m very
proud that this conference taking place
in Poland which proves that we really
take care about our environment that
pollution is a very serious problem and
we are taking steps to get rid of
pollution and very important thing is
that these contradictions which you
mention we can cope with that first of
all our government started very
important reform which is called clear
air we’re going to spend 3 billion euros
for over a thousand buses electrical
electrical buses then we are going to
spend 250 million euros for new
technology heaters in a private houses
we’re going to support those who will be
happy to exchange the old technology for
for the new one and very important thing
I’d like to show you specific data which
is important to our discussion about
polluters in Europe this is very
Germany 23% Great Britain seven eleven
point two yeah we can you’ve got yeah we
can’t really see that actually ten
percent you can tell us they can’t fully
see that yeah yeah certainly certainly
we can’t really see it because it’s too
far away but with its official data you
can you can you can google it it’s it’s
what I’m trying to say is the Poland
it’s not a biggest polluter as someone
says or trying to put the words into
mouth Great Britain Italy France this is
very important so why I’m saying that
because we need someone to cooperate we
need people to make these very important
decisions together we cannot have any
kind of hypocrisy and when you look at
the history because the pollution is a
very very serious issue but this is
political historical and economical
issue when you go through the history
and you see Germans not I’m not talking
about Second World War two only but 17
18 19th century and see and you see
Russians all these days how they reacted
how they treated Poland we have to fight
for our security with the energy that’s
what has never ever stop
our safety and at the moment our black
gold as a coal so when we have Germany
you know building north stirring to when
we have France selling the worships
minstrels to Russia we have to think
about our security obviously as I said
environment is very important for I want
my son and grandson to be healthy to be
with a beautiful environment but you
have to be responsible for the next
generation and the safety of our nation

let me bring in Marc Morano so Marc
interestingly Dominick talks about not
wanting to have pollution there are
those who agree with the scientific
consensus who believe that beyond just
actual pollution of the air the burning
of the fossil fuel coal leads to global
warming I guess that’s what you would
dispute do you accept the consensus that
this conference mark that everybody is
working towards lessening the burning of
fossil fuels so that global warming also
stops by 2050?

Morano: No I don’t accept that
consensus and first of all I’ll be
heading to Poland in a few days and I’ll
be there all next week what Dominic said
is exactly right first of all let’s
distinguish between an actual pollution
and carbon dioxide emissions and yes
there’s all kinds of technology and
improvement and infrastructure
development you can do to improve the
results of coal burning to clean up your
air and Poland is doing that but in
terms of what Dominic just said about
the history of Poland to be dominated by
Germany then decades under the Soviet
Union all they’ve done now is
essentially replaced a new regulatory
body that’s come in and it’s going to be
the EU in the UN telling Poland how they
can do their energy mix 79% of Poland is
coal miners it’s one of the most revered
institutions polling shows that pulp
mine workers are considered higher the
highest most respected citizens in the
country this is part of Polish
nationalism there’s nothing wrong with
it right and what I would say to Dominic
what I would say to Poland is join
President Trump join Brazil join these
other countries that are taking a hard
look and let’s start out we’re
especially only hurt very right okay so
let me bring in James here because thank
you something that’s interesting here
trying to say
and UN suddenly we are the part of this
family okay you are a part of this
family and something that’s interesting
here we’ve heard it from other countries
as well they’re saying rich
industrialized countries you guys
polluted the environment
you guys contributed to global warming
rile you industrialized and now you’re
asking us will also shoulder the burden
as we all get together but hold on why
why is it so imbalanced right that’s
that’s fundamentally one of the issues
politically but beyond that James let me
bring you in here because what we’re
hearing from mark and what we’re hearing
from Dominic as well is that they’re
sure about the fact that burning
something like coal makes the air dirty
but they’re not so sure about the other
thing which the Intergovernmental Panel
on Climate Change says is that if we
don’t stop burning coal as a fossil fuel
if we don’t do it by ninety seven
percent by 2015 we won’t be able to
limit global warming by 1.5 percent so
James how do you deal with the fact that
fundamentally people believe very
different things when it comes to why
you should stop using coal as a fossil
fuel absolutely we can all accept a
quality is a serious issue here in
solution to this um yeah and in parts of
the region this week yeah the air
quality is been reaching in principal
state and the equivalent of being
outside to Spokane tends 20 cigarettes a
day depending on where you are so we can
all agree that that is the point reason
to reduce Paul and I reject the claims
that the Polish government is moving
quickly on climate change that currently
hasn’t said youth needs percent of
electricity Commission before they’re
only going to reduce that to 50 percent
by 2050 and that’s just not enough that
we need but I’d also I had also
completely agree that we need further
action from Germany from the UK from
from France I mean I’m not here just to
criticize Poland I realize all them is
in a difficult position and I fully
appreciate the difficulty for miners and
traditional mining regions that will
have in this country during the
transition but the reality is the
current Polish government is saying with
200 years of poles left in the ground
and that’s just not true if you want to
do justice for the – living in this
country you need to prepare for that
transition but there for me the way
control and actually renewable energy
for business like for us in the longer
period it’s going to make economic sense
okay so Dominique are you preparing for
energy and alternatives I mean it’s not
a not a law of nature that you have to
burn coal forever and ever right well we
are very open for the dialogue we are
very open for the new technology as I
said this three billion dollar three
billion euros which will be spent for
the over a thousand locked electrical
buses is just to prove that we are the
one of the few country in the in Europe
which really does change and we really
care so then we’ve got over 250 million
euros for this more advanced heaters so
we are open for four for the green
energy but it doesn’t mean that we have
to resign from our black gold it’s very
important because as I said I’m trying
to look on the bigger picture it’s
important because of the safety security
look at Ukraine Ukraine was promised
that if they will give away the nuclear
power the integrity of the country will
be safe and look what is happening now
Russia is attacking so we need to have
people who have credibility and we need
to have the partners who really want to
do the change show me one country in
Europe which is doing as much as we do
what about China what about our partners
and again UN is us we are the part of UN
European Union is us we are the part of
the European yin and we are eco like
everyone else so it’s not like that
someone is gonna tell us or others what
to do and how to do it we can discuss it
as a partners we can take your advanced
advices but you know we’re not owned by
anyone again don’t get me wrong we
really love our children we love our
families all of us are aware of this
problem this is very serious problem but
you have to do it step by step
keeping in mind who is our neighbor I’m
talking about Poland we’ve got Germany
which is the biggest polluter and we’ve
got we’ve got Russians who are doing the
deal with North stream to energy is the
way to take over power very often so
it’s a it’s not only about health it’s
not it’s not about quality of air only
but about the security about the safety
of the collation McMurran are moving
away from oh okay James you want to jump
in jump in come in
to have importing coal from other
countries and so renewable energy
activists often left out the
conversations that renewable energies
are very important by the way for
countries to achieve energy security and
component to increase the amount of
renewable energy that’s doing would be
very valuable for its actual security as
it would be in the United States and
other countries I don’t want this to be
one thing this went to Poland because
this needs to be a global effort in
Poland it’s just one part of that but
they are sharing this conference so they
have a huge influence all that any
decisions that happen this week mark you
want to come in yes I just want to say
here the key here is that yes you can
have and make a foray into renewable
energy but you can’t ban energy that
works oil gas coal and mandate energy
that’s not ready and if it is ready then
fine let it take over why do you have to
ban all the energy that’s proven
successful but my vantage point up one
point mark the Polish coal companies are
sponsoring this conference you think
they were talking about the UN goals
well the UN climate chief has said they
seek a centralized transformation they
talk about a two-degree goal at 1.5 if
you look at the Climategate emails from
the scandal that top UN scientists
admitted these numbers were pulled from
thin air this is a political move to
give central planning to a few key
bureaucrats in the EU and the United
Nations to micromanage all these
countries Poland doesn’t deserve that
the U the EU wants to give Poland 1.5
billion dollars the ease the transition
as they put layoff coal workers as
assuming Poland follows these UN edicts
and and goals from the UN Paris
agreement but my would argue if Poland
can reject that money reject these goals
do what’s best for Poland that is the
problem here is that we don’t need
Poland does not need this rice offering
D over to the EU to the United Nations
and I stand with Dominik air and ice I
asked you to Poland to stay strong take
a page from the United States and other
countries that are following six okay
although Dominique unlike mark you don’t
reject that climate change is going on
right you accept that it’s going on you
accept it’s a problem right Dominic it’s
it’s all about it’s all about various
opinion of the people who are
you know working on it scientists I can
tell that we’ve got a problem in in some
of the Polish cities like anyone else
but again we are not the biggest
polluter the Germany is over 23 percent
Great Britain France Italy and then
you’ve got somewhere Poland in the end
but the whole discussion it’s not about
Poland itself obviously again I’m very
proud that this summit is taking place
in in Poland but the the whole problem
is a worldwide it is a kind of crisis
because of lack of decisions you know
the the decisions and the declarations
from Paris was not full we’re not
fulfilled so again it’s about
credibility of our partners that’s why I
do agree with President Trump step by
step but do not give away your serenity
and your own safety so I you know apart
from the healthy part of pollution I
mean unhealthy and then then medical
problems and issues there is a political
and economical war there are many
countries which would be very happy to
get rid of coal in Poland and other
countries we are aware of that that’s
why a we’re gonna fight with the
pollution B we’re gonna spend as much as
we can see we are already spending the
most in European Union so you know take
example from Poland spent at least the
same money even though we are having
less money in our budget and then we can
talk as a partners again three billion
euros for over a thousand buses
electronical buses that’s just for the
beginning and then 250 million euros for
for the heaters in the private homes
this is what we’ve already started so
please take example from Poland ok
it’s been a fascinating intersection of
different ideas especially given the
fact that this conference has been
happening in Katowice the capital of the
Silesian mining district in Poland
gentlemen I appreciate you with a group
that we are open for the discussion yeah
and I’m glad you came on to the show and
you open for the session here as well
James ELLs more Marc Morano and Dominik
touch in ski I better move on